Paola Espinosa
Welcome to the Doing Good Lab podcast brought to you by Digizent International.

This is where we explore practical strategies to help your nonprofit grow, engage donors, and fund your mission more effectively. Today, we’re diving into a topic that often raises a lot of questions. Paid media. Some nonprofits embrace it, others are hesitant, and many simply aren’t sure how it works or whether it’s worth the investment. So today, we’re going to unpack it, what it is, how it works, and how it can support your donor development strategy. Today, I’m joined by some very special guests. Rebecca Vanderwerf, President of Digizent, Kurt Filla, our managing director of paid media, and Saúl de Los Santos, our paid media client success manager. Kurt and Saúl, we are especially excited to have you for the first time on the podcast.

So please tell us a little bit about yourself.

Kurt Filla
Sure. Hi, my name is Kurt, and I’m the managing director of paid media, Digizent. I’ve actually been buying and selling media online for 26 years. So I’ve got a lot of experience to bring to the table today. And I would say the thing I’m most passionate about is trying to extract the greatest amount of value and performance from any platform that we buy on.

Paola Espinosa
That’s awesome. Thank you. Kurt and Saúl, welcome.

Saúl de los Santos
Hi. I’m so excited to be here, guys. I love seeing how detailed strategies actually drive results, and especially how we can now measure almost every step of the customer journey, you know, from the first interaction all the way to conversion. So I really enjoy numbers, side of the work, metrics, stats analysis, and all of that. So I’m so excited to be here.

Paola Espinosa
We are excited to have you here, Saúl. Thank you so much. So let’s jump into the conversation, and, Kurt, let’s start simple. When we say paid media, what do we mean?

Kurt Filla
I mean, that’s a simple question, but. But it’s also not right. I mean, because it encompasses so much, really, it’s basically, you know, digital advertising. It’s where you buy media on platforms like Meta, which is Facebook and Instagram, buying media on Google search on their display, YouTube buying media on LinkedIn. People can buy directly with publishers. They can use other platforms, but it’s basically anytime you’re buying media ads to get in front of your audience, you have to intentionally place your message in front of that defined audience. And that’s basically, you know, what we’re doing in a paid media space. A lot of people who get started might be like, boosting a post on Facebook because they make it easy to do that. And that’s a strategy. But it’s not really what paid media is all about.

It’s really being much more strategic and selective. It’s important. Right. Because organic reach is declining. We know that our attention is fragmented, our audience is fragmented. They’re everywhere right now. And you want to be able to reach them at the right time, at the right place. And if you want to reach new donors consistently, you can’t really rely just on hope or boosting a post or, you know, doing just organic. You really have to get out there and get in front of them with a defined paid media strategy.

Saúl de los Santos
Yeah, totally agree. I mean, I always love to think of a digital strategy as a whole ecosystem. In terms of E commerce, there will be like sales ecosystem, but translating into a nonprofit organizations, it would be like a fundraising ecosystem. So I really think digital fundraising work best when you see it as a full ecosystem, not just a series of disconnected tactics. So your paid media, your storytelling, your landing page, donation flow and your follow up all influence each other. So I mean, in other words, I would say every touch point matters. And the follow up email, the clarity of the mission, everything. So because people don’t experience those things separately right.

And paid media can be a powerful field within that ecosystem because it helps amplify what’s already working. But if the message is weak or the journey isn’t clear at Salon usually won’t solve that.

Rebecca Vanderwerf
You’re exactly right, Saúl. And honestly, for leadership especially, paid media is about important stewardship. Where are we spending our money? How are we spending our money? Especially in a non profit world, being cautious with the money, where and how you spend it is extremely important. But honestly, in the world that we live in today, the question really isn’t should we advertise? It’s how do we wisely invest to reach those people who truly want to support and be invested in our mission? And so that’s honestly what our focus is when it comes to paid media.

Paola Espinosa
Yeah, I mean, what you all just share really frames paid media as a tool for a thoughtful engagement. Right. So that makes me wonder, how does paid media actually support donor development and not just a short term fundraising?

Kurt Filla
Sure, I can start with that. We really need to get in front of our audience to build awareness. There’s so many people that might have a heart for your mission that don’t know you exist. So at the top of the funnel, we want to let people know who we are, what we’re about and our mission. And introducing these new audiences to your mission is one of the primary ways that paid media can really bring value to your organization. And then you have middle of the funnel where those users, some of those users start to really engage. They click on the ads, they interact with the website, they consume content. They’re becoming aware more and engaging with who you are and your mission. And so those visitors are important to just segment and then to build those audiences as engaged users.

And then bottle bottom of the funnel is conversions. I mean, that’s what’s really important. What, what gets exciting is because the more data you can get, the more engagement you get. You can begin to get people who are signing up. They’re becoming donors to the campaigns. And that donation and tracking those gifts and recurring gifts is just really exciting. And it takes time. And you need to kind of build that funnel from awareness to engagement to conversion. But as data accumulates, it can really be powerful. So paid media can grow your leads. You can retarget previous donors. Maybe they’re lapsed, maybe they haven’t been to your site for a while. You haven’t seen a donation for quite some time. You can retarget them. You can reactivate truly lab supporters that you haven’t heard from in a year or two.

Those can become an audience that you segment with a specific message. And then those people that are currently donating to you can increase those recurring gifts through a segment as well. So there’s so many things that you can do with paid media from top of the funnel to the bottom of the funnel.

Saúl de los Santos
Yeah, I really love that framing because it reminds people that donor development is usually a process, not a single moment. So I would say a big part of paid media is really about meeting people that they already are in their journey with your organizations. So not everyone is ready to donate the first time they come across your mission. And that’s completely normal. There’s so many touch points during the journey. Someone may visit your website, watch a video, you know, engage with a campaign, or spend time learning about your work, but still need more time before they’re ready to act. So I will say what paid media allows you to do is continue that conversation in a thoughtful way. So it gives you, like, the opportunity to stay present, stay relevant, and guide people toward that next step when the timing is right.

So that’s why I think retargeting is such a valuable tool for nonprofits and not just in terms of donations. I mean, it can absolutely support fundraising outcomes, of course, but it also helps build familiarity, trust, and momentum. I would say before Someone is ready to give. So in other words, I would say, like, it helps turn initial interest into a deeper connection over time.

Rebecca Vanderwerf
And from a strategy perspective, you know, paid media, it really needs to align with very clear goals. What are you trying to accomplish in your organization? You have to go after the right people. You can’t just throw a huge net and expect something to stick. You need to have that audience defined who has supported you in the best, what type of donor supports your organization. And then most importantly, you have to measure the outcomes. If you don’t know how it’s performing, why are you spending, why are you investing that money? And so you have to be able to measure not only the immediate outcomes, but the long term outcomes as well. It’s truly not just about running ads. It’s running ads with a very specific purpose in mind.

Paola Espinosa
Yeah, to Becky’s point, paid media isn’t random. Right. It’s about setting goals, knowing your audiences, measuring results. But even with that in mind, starting out can be tricky. So Kurt, from your experience, what are some of the biggest mistakes nonprofits make when they first dive into paid media?

Kurt Filla
Yeah, I was just going to tag on to what Becky said, because as you go after your audience, you know, one of the biggest things that everybody needs to be aware of is that all of the platforms that we buy on, they will spend your money. And we do not want to waste our money by just letting the systems take the dollars.

Rebecca Vanderwerf
And they don’t have your best interest at heart right, Kurt .

Kurt Filla
You really have to use the tools creatively and selectively.

Kurt Filla
And so let me go through some of those. First of all, goals. What are your goals? Your goals really need to be clearly defined and they need to be achievable. You know, if the goal is we need a million dollar donor every week, you know, let’s just talk about that. You know, how can we get leads to small donations, to larger donations, to recurring donations, and ramp that up, like, what are the starting points and how do we build on that? So get clear goals that are reachable and achievable, and then sending traffic to landing pages that are weak and don’t really have those goals clearly organized or easy to accomplish.

You know, one example is if you want to lead and you have a form to fill out, you know, if it’s 150 questions, you’re going to have a lower conversion rate. So getting a landing page where there’s, you know, a form that’s easier to fill out, that’s more accessible to users you know, there’s just so many things you can look at on landing pages to make sure that they’re stronger and they have a better conversion rate, a clear call to action. Those really need to audited before you start into your campaign. One of the mistakes that so many people make is they don’t track conversions properly and nor do they track as many conversions as they could be tracking.

One of the specific techniques that really helps the systems learn because all of these systems, Google and Meta and Programmatic Display, they all use data to learn with their algorithms to basically perform better with the more data that they get. So if your main goal is a lead, but there’s all these other things going on your page, track all of it, feed that into your system, make one primary, but let everything talk to the system. So track, track. It’s data, data. And that if you don’t integrate that data properly between the platforms there can be a disconnect there. You really need to make sure that alignment is clear and consistent and that you monitor it because it can break if you update the website and somebody drops the code.

Like, we need to be auditing that and make sure it’s running consistently and then to stop too soon. Oh my gosh. If you’re like spending all this money on learning, and we do encourage people to start small, to test and to learn, but as you do that for a few weeks or even a month, if you just stop, you know, without really getting the long term benefit of that testing, stopping too early is just a huge mistake. People like, oh, it didn’t work. Well, you know what, it actually did work. We learned what wasn’t working and now we’re going to shift and we’re going to move into areas that will work better. So, so focus on that one goal. Find out what audience and how it works and just keep going after that.

And then finally just make sure your donation form and landing page are optimized first. Which is really kind of what I was talking about. You know, really spend the time to make sure that it’s easy to convert and track. Because data is the most important thing, in my opinion, that makes these things work.

Saúl de los Santos
Yes. I mean, when you were talking about those unclear goals, I totally agree. I mean, when the goal isn’t clear at all, it becomes really hard to know what message the creatives should be delivering. And then with landing pages, weak landing pages, I mean, I think that’s a big one. I mean, sometimes the ad does its job, but then the Buzzclic experience Doesn’t carry that momentum forward. Right. Also, I would say, like, creatives also plays a huge role in. In where paid media actually resonates. I would think sometimes there’s that assumption that simply putting budget behind an ad is enough. But in reality, people respond to messaging that feels relevant and clear and also, like, emotionally grounded, especially in the nonprofit space. I think generate creatives usually doesn’t go very far.

People want to understand what the mission is, why it matters, and how their support can make a difference. And you need to be very clear in every touch point of the donation journey. So the creative has to do more than just look good. It has to create, like, this clarity and connection very quickly. And when that happens, I would say payme up becomes much more effective because that audience understands both purpose and invitation you are selling to them.

Rebecca Vanderwerf
And, you know, I would say if there’s one thing I can drill into people, it’s that even modest, smaller, but very strategic investments can for sure outperform just general, broad, unfocused outreach. So don’t be afraid to start small.

Kurt Filla
And to test a couple of things. You know, test more than just one or two creatives like .

Rebecca Vanderwerf
Yes, a lot of times when it’s done incorrectly, the bigger budget doesn’t outperform that smaller budget when it is done correctly.

Saúl de los Santos
Yeah, I think that’s especially restoring for nonprofits because it reminds them that they don’t need to start with something massive to start learning what works.

Paola Espinosa
Absolutely right I mean, I’ve seen that even the modest campaigns can deliver strong results when they are strategic. And that brings up an important question, I guess, how should nonprofits measure success with paid media efforts?

Rebecca Vanderwerf
You know, I think one of the most important things we can do when we’re stepping into the paid advertising space is explain, help educate leaders on what success actually means. Like Kurt was saying earlier, just because something is not performing exactly the way we want it to perform, doesn’t mean let’s just stop. Let’s just not do this anymore. Cause it’s not working. It’s learning to learn from every single result that we get. It’s not just impressions or clicks. It’s whether paid media is supporting your broader fundraising strategy and helping raise all of the efforts at the same time. You know, a lot of times we talk about email deliverability and how hard it is to get people to even open an email this day and age because they have so much clutter going on.

And that’s where paid media is a huge tool, because it helps cut through that clutter and it helps get in front of that donor’s face, even if they never clicked open that email. But then we need to look, are we acquiring the right donors? You know, we don’t at the end of the day just want impressions and clicks. We actually are trying to acquire the right donors. Are we strengthening retention? Are they coming back? Are they giving that second gift? And are we moving people deeper into engagement? Not just donation wise, but interaction and true interest with the mission? Paid media really needs to connect with those real organizational goals. It’s not just about campaign metrics or looking at a report. We need to be involved at high level strategic fundraising goals for every nonprofit that we work with.

Kurt Filla
For sure and when you talk about goals, we really need to focus on conversions that are trackable, turning those goals into data points, if I can say that as many times as possible. Conversion data points. So we can track what is the cost per acquisition, what is the cost per lead? You know, we really want to measure all of the different important goals for a campaign to make it successful and not just limited on what’s immediate. Because you know, the return on ad spend can really be about the lifetime value of newly acquired donors. A lot of times people look through a narrow lens of like, well, what just happened yesterday in my leads and why isn’t there more donation?

Well, if we cultivate those leads and track the lead week over week and month over month, the lifetime value can be a lot more than the snapshot of just yesterday. So having that long vision of cultivation and making conversions really become meaningful contacts within a nonprofit is super important. It’s not just about the immediate roi. So when it’s done well, it really strengths your donor pipeline and it builds long term sustainability, not just one time gifts. So and just to reiterate again, a failed campaign is successful if you can use that data to improve your next campaign. You know, we talked earlier about starting small and building. So, you know, a lot of times some of the mistakes people make is they spend a lot of money that first month. Cause they’re so excited and they have big goals.

But if you kind of just, you know, start small, learn from your mistakes, that’s a success. If you can make the next round of testing a little bit better than the last time. And it does, it improves month over month, year over year. So, so, but to be in it for the long game and track everything well, so important.

Rebecca Vanderwerf
And the reality is not everything we try is going to work right, Kurt? Like as much as we want every single campaign to be a Success, some are going to fail. You know, what we thought was going to work will not work. But as you said, learning from that is just as important as the campaigns that are truly successful.

Saúl de los Santos
Yeah, and I think that’s where it’s helpful to remember that some of the most meaningful results may happen over time. You know, not always immediately after, you know, the first click or your first campaign or your first testing. I would say like paid media is most effective when it’s connected to the folder journey. That might be the first interaction someone has with your organization, but it can’t carry the whole experience on its own. And as I’ve mentioned before, I mean once someone’s click, everything that comes next matters just as much. The consistency of the message, the clarity of the landing page, the ease of the donation flow and the quality of the follow up afterwards. So I often think of the ad as the invitation, but the relationship is really built in everything that happens after that first click.

So when nonprofits think about paid media, I think it’s important to see it’s not just as a way to drive traffic, but as one part of a large relationship building process. You know, without data alignment, even strong campaigns can struggle to create lasting impact. You know, you always need to aim for the long term relationship.

Kurt Filla
One thing I do want to say is to talk about the duration of a campaign and how long we should be in it, looking at it, evaluating people stop too early. If you look at the testing period is really one to three months. So much could happen in that early stages. Especially if you’re starting small and you’re learning with a few creatives, maybe one creative works better than another and you learn from that. And then you need data into the systems. Like Google needs 30 to 50 conversions for it to switch to smart bidding and that can take three months depending on your budget. So the first one to three months is learning and then the second three to six months is where that learning becomes actionable transition into to optimization.

So you should see a lift in that second stage and then once those lifts start to occur, then you start ramping up your budget and you start getting into a longer campaign basically. So one to three months early learning, three to six months, you know, learning starts to give you movement and, and increase and from there you build from there.

Saúl de los Santos
Yes, it could depend also because not all the organizations starts at the same start point because some of them, they already have like big lists for first party data, which matters a lot for learning on faces in platforms and or sometimes we run specific targeting Campaigns which limited a lot the sizes of the audience. So it’s a lot to take in consideration for this.

Paola Espinosa
Before we close, what’s the key insight from today’s conversation that can make the biggest difference for nonprofits?

Saúl de los Santos
I always think paid media is a magic solution, but I do think it can be very powerful when it’s used strategically and in the right context. So it can help nonprofits reach new audiences, reconnect with people who have already shown interest, and of course, extend the impact of their message in a measurable way. But the real value comes when it’s integrated into a broader strategy, one where the messaging is strong, the experience is intentional, and every touch point is working together. So that’s when paid media becomes more than just advertising. It becomes meaningful part of how an organization conversation grows awareness, builds trust, and drives actions. So I would say pay me a works best when it’s not treated as a shortcut, but as a strict part of our relationship building.

Rebecca Vanderwerf
I love that, Saul. I love that. For me, paid media is sort of the doorway. It’s that connection point. It’s how we reach people who may have never or will never hear about your mission, your nonprofit organization any other way. And so it helps and it allows your mission to intersect with someone who may be ready to give, but they just haven’t met you yet. They just don’t know the incredible impact that your organization is having around the world. So when I think of paid media, I think about connection. Connection with those supporters who do not know you yet.

Kurt Filla
Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And when you think about investment, though, I just want to reiterate, you know, these systems will drain your budget if it’s not done thoughtfully. And so using your audience, using your first party data, using the learnings that you gain from all of the interactions that you have and are having with your users, that’s the thoughtfulness that can go back into the campaigns, you can feed that back into the platforms, and every dollar then becomes an investment, rather than just something that you’re just hoping and praying will go out to somebody somewhere. It’s strategically doing paid media thoughtfully with all of the tools at your disposal, from the landing page to the data, to your users, to a team that’s optimizing it and working on it and providing results. So it’s not really just an expense to your bottom line. It’s an investment. And it’s investment that really does pay off if it’s done thoughtfully.

Paola Espinosa
Well, thank you so much, Becky, Kurt and Saúl this was such an engaging and informative conversation. I’m sure our listeners will be inspired to take a closer look at their paid media efforts. If you’d like support in developing a paid media strategy or simply understanding how it fits into your Overall fundraising plan, Digizent is here to help. Visit Digizent.com to get in touch. And thank you for listening to the Doing Good Lab podcast.

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